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Post by rob on Aug 2, 2009 12:58:35 GMT -4
During these times as we continue to loose access to the beaches. Towns and the local business feel the pinch, what else can be done by us? Where is the UMSPA, US Sportsman alliance, Boone and Crockett, Ted Nugent and the dozens of other sportsman lobbies, activists, special interest groups, equipment outfitters, organizations and factions that exist in this county? As well as the thousands of Fishing clubs, hunting clubs and sportsman magazines? Sportsman in this county far out weigh "bird people" As a group we contribute more money in permits an fees than they ever will, we have a voice and as a group we have the money. The problem is we are unorganized, unlike the nature groups who are. Understandably every area has their own concerns and fights to battle and cant come rushing to our aid. But maybe it is time for all of these factions to get together under one flag and change the focus. Strength in numbers, forget about our own concerns locally and fight it nationally. This is the only was we will get anything back. They hit us in this manner, by funneling dollars and politico connections at the federal level why cant we? Are we going to roll over and let an inhearant right as an American society be taken away from us, with out at least a try to fight on a different level? We are getting, and will be squashed IF WE DONT TRY TO UNITE AND BRING THE FIGHT TO THEM. People have voices, and those voiced can and will be heard if we are louder and more organized. We can change this situation,its all a matter of a desire to do so and a different way of thinking. And besides that, even if we didnt, I would rather be in the rocking chair knowing I tried to save these issues for my kids and grand kids and lost, then not fight at all. Should we change our focus? Can we add a access committee that strictly deals with getting other organizations under one umbrella, and help us in a national struggle? Can we install a fund raising committee to have the perpetual funds to help with the cause, not on a local level but a national one? Are their lawyers that can help, donate? If not can we find them? Should we at least try? Open letters to newspapers, blogs and websites voicing our concerns. over and over again? NOT just from us, but from organizations allover the country that can raise the issue to a mass audience. These are thousands of politicians, judges and so forth that are sportsman and want to see these rights rights preserved. But if you think that no one is there listening, or no one cares, why fight, why bother? 99% of the articles, blogs and so on about beach access are about LOST beach access, never about a fight for it. Why has this never changed in recent years. This is news and we CAN be heard.
I understand that in these days, beach access, or sportsman rights all together are low on the list. But if we can organize,strengthen our numbers and have everyone put in a little effort, instead of the few putting it all in we can be heard. Like J. Paul Getty said, I would rather have 1% of 100 peoples efforts than 100% of my own. This is how we have to attack it, it's a numbers game just like anything else, with people, money and birds.
We have to stop being selfish. this isnt about Nauset beach, CCNS, my 24 foot motor home, beach camps, birds or anything else related to that. This is about a fundamental right for our rights as sportsman, and PUBLIC access to beaches, local areas, wilderness areas and so forth in our own country. Once we start acting like we are patriots fighting for our rights, instead of selfish RV/camp owners who want to protect thier own interests we may have a shot, until then there is no hope.
This letter may fall of deaf ears, as many of my concerns have in the past. I am hoping that right people show them selves and have the same attitude as I, a willingness to move forward, a fighting spirit, and a focused goal. My personal concerns do not fall on one particular place, as it pains me to see them disappear this does not mean when they are gone it's over, for me its just beginning of a lot more bad to happen.
I am willing to do what ever it takes, meet with people who want to change things and help this basic American right to walk on public land, hunt on public land, and fish our public lakes rivers and oceans. While we pay a high tax for these "rights" we should at least try to preserve them. No one should be able to take this away from us, this is our land as a country, open for all. We should not stand to be ostracized and cast away, in any way.
If every sportsman in this county decided to not buy a hunting permit, fishing permit, fishing and hunting stamps, gun licenses, educational seminars, and everything else we are taxed on, for one year. You will see how fast the state and federal government would start listening to us, and the special interest groups power and influence would be checked.
for liberty!
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Post by kellya on Aug 2, 2009 22:56:27 GMT -4
Okay. I'll go out on a limb here, Rob, and admit that I agree with the points you've posted. There appear to be numbers of us and I don't see that we're doing much, if anything, to fight the environmentalists. Please feel free . . . anyone . . . to step in and correct me if I'm wrong. I'd really appreciate it. This subject needs some attention. We, as MBBA , members need information. I've looked for it on this website and can't find it.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I am not seeing that there is a united front of any sort fighting to protect our beach access rights. I will go a step further and ask what is proactively being done by the MBBA to ensure continued access to our beaches? I did get the word last weekend from someone on the beach (Race Point) that had talked to someone in"the big house" and they were suggesting to this person that "we" (MBBA? ?) go in the direction of ACCESS. There is a lot of back roads through the dunes (I'm speaking specifically of Race Point) that are blocked off to public access, but that could serve as access to the beachfront areas in times of closure due to bird nesting.
Where are we with numbers, as far as successfully fledged plovers? (I know there's a target number and we weren't far from it two years ago). NOW, the Dept, of Fisheries and Wildlife is dragging a specific species of tern into the picture (i.e. the plovers have nested and fledged ,and the beach would be open 'cept for these terns). I really have an issue with hearing that it's just ONE newly hatched tern that is blocking our access. I certainly am not asking to sacrifice one bird, but again the issue is ACCESS. Is there no way, that in all those miles of pole road, there can be an additional access road or two (10' wide, I'm talking) cut through?
These are our beaches. We pay taxes, as citizens of the good 'ole U.S., and should not settle for anything less than accesss to what is ours. We can co-exist with the birds. We've been doing it for years.
Again . . .please tell me/us . . .where we're going with this as an organization?
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Post by guest on Aug 3, 2009 1:13:57 GMT -4
This is a subject that has been beat to death over the last 40 years or so. As I see it the MBBA has been activley fighting for access for many years. They hired a special lawyer that is supposed to be able to help all to understand the laws and how to get around them. The talk was a special section # that will allow the towns to get around the bird stuff. I do not see anything published regarding the section permits. I think the MBBA had some meetings with the State people that seem to mean nothing.
Rob, you hit it right on the head. A unified front has to be formed. You seem to know a lot about the organizations, how about you starting something for us to follow. You seem to have the knowledge of the proper people thaat can be unified. Are you now a member of the MBBA? I think there are some real knowledgeable people in that group. I do know that there are both State and Federal offices as well as towns todeal wit.
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Post by Guest on Aug 3, 2009 14:32:21 GMT -4
Many of your members are mostly concerned with beach access using an SCV, but many users of this forum are day trippers some who fish, many who don’t. Having stayed in Orleans as a renter for many years and watched my children grow up on Nauset Beach my family and friends are saddened to see what has happened to our beach access. Having been in Orleans this past weekend it seems the local business’s are also very upset and angry with the present status. Has an effort been made to contact local Chamber of Commerce and local real estate rental agencies in the affected towns to lean on their elected officials to do more to help resolve these beach access issues. As a day tripper what can we do to help in efforts to keep the beaches open to all?
Thank You
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Post by rob on Aug 3, 2009 16:29:06 GMT -4
I am a memeber of the MBBA, but to be brutally honest I feel the MBBA leaves ts members in the dark....for the most part. There has been no REAL reporting on this website of any actions the mbba is taking. I am not saying that they are not, becauase I know they are. The MBBA had a huge problem getting information to thier members, the actual meat of the orginaization, that has a voice. This is very frustrating to me, and I am sure most of the members. But this is they way the club has been chosen to be run, they are doing a very hard job, using up thier own time to fight for us. All I am saying is that information could be passed along a little better and maybe the focus of the club should be changed, get away from some things to focus on others. I know myself, that if I had o give up a consevation project, or a spring meet to fight for access on nauset, I would. As I said in my last message, get away from selfish self interest, and focus on the larger problem. As anaccess club we may actually do SOMETHING! Why are we wasting resources to clean up and preserve a beach we arent even allowd on? Give me a break.
I am reaching out to the MBBA, as well as other orginizations with this letter in an effort to possible start a grassroots campaign for ACCESS! That the MBBA and its members may change thier focus on what matters, and stand up for what is right. You are in my back yard and there is no better place to start. If I can get the right responces from you, and people who are willing to help from the MBBA we can move on together and work together and plan together. then together we can approach another local orginization that we can get involved. I am starting here because this is where my heart is, Cape Cod. I want to see it again from the window of my camper, I want my kids to see it, and I want EVERYONE who ever wants to see it do! Because we wouldnt let them take it away!
I
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Post by Rob on Aug 3, 2009 16:39:01 GMT -4
Daytrippers.... The way I look as day trippers is more strength in numbers. But when I drove on Nauset past the HUNDREDS of daytrippers out there, I never remember seeing ONE MBBA sticker? I used to ask myself 'why arent these people involved, they come here to fish, surf, have fun with thir families and so on, but how many are members?" Was there ever a membership drive to recruit these people, or maybe a program in conjunction with orleans, that when they bought a beach sticker they could become a member for 5 or 10 bucks? Get a sticker and number on the spot? This is what an orginazation does, figures out ways to incease reveue, increase awareness and actually fight for the right. Of course this takes follow through, to keep members interested and active an coming back. For the THOUSANDS of daytrippers that enjoy nauset beach, please join, or at the very least contact someone from the orginization or me, and leave your name and number. Imagine what could be done now, if we 15% of the daytrippers that visited nauset alone in the past 10 years as members.
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Post by Scott Morris on Aug 3, 2009 16:39:35 GMT -4
Rob and company. Please contact me via email so we may discuss some of your issues. Starting this conversation on the message board is great, following through would be much easier one on one. scottmorris@mbba.net
Thank You.
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Post by tomg1009 on Aug 4, 2009 21:32:18 GMT -4
I agree with Scott, People need to email us directly or maybe we can set a meeting and discuss. As the members of this club know we do meet eevry month except July and August. I have to say as an active member for years and have attended the meeting there never seems to be new people at them or if they are nothing is said.We seem to voice our concern when we are aggrevated at time lost during the summer when this is a year round fight.As for leaving the memberhip in the dark about what we are doing I know for a fact that i have not received phone cals or emails on any issues. I have been responded and watching for our concerns aboutr the upcoming salt water license and hopefully it can be used to help our access issues. As for Race Point we all know it is Federallly ran and different set of rules apply unlike the other town owned beaches. I feel they have been pretty good to us by accommandating the Orv's as they could of said eveything is closed until the birds are gone and that means the parking lots and High head. As all members know we have a general meetings twice a year with the Fall Banquet coming in Nov. Be heard and show up and support your club and officers and that's where the membership has to be heard and have a say in the cliubs going Tom Gagnon President
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Post by kellya on Aug 4, 2009 22:26:31 GMT -4
Your responses to this thread, Scott and Tom, are appreciated, but I have to say that the “e-mail me for information” approach only adds to the veil of secrecy that has been mentioned over and over on these boards and on the beach.
The monthly meetings are a great suggestion . . . as long as you live in the general Lakeville vicinity. It is quite a hike for me and I need to arrange to leave work early to get there. Admittedly, that’s nobody’s problem but my own . . . but is the reason I don’t attend monthly and, most likely, the reason that most others don't attend. This website would/could be a great source of information for the entire membership. And “membership” is the key word here. I feel that this website, specifically, this message board, should be accessible by members only. I state who I am and, frankly, I have a problem with “guest” postings.
As a dues–paying member, I would really like to know what the MBBA, as an organization, is doing to ensure future access. You mention Race Point, Tom. It is a Federally-controlled beach, but we’re all taxpayers and that shouldn’t be out of our league. What is the D.C. lawyer doing for us?
I’m not harping and please don’t take it as such. I’m just hearing the voices of frustration on the beach (or, in our case, for the past month, in the parking lot) and everyone is just looking for answers and information. If we, the membership, were informed about just what is being done to ensure future beach access, we could feel confident approaching all these day-trippers and the general beach-loving populus and gather revenue through new memberships. It’s tough to sell a product when you don’t know for certain what you’re selling (i.e. “come help us clean up xxxx beach, which you may not be able to access by next summer.)
There's got to be a way that this information pipeline can be improved. Someone (Tom? or designee?) needs to be proactive about informing the membership. This website is the perfect tool that is currently (my opinion) under-used.
Kelly Annis #2183
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Post by Scott Morris on Aug 5, 2009 7:36:18 GMT -4
Kelly,
I truly understand your frustrations. Have it be known there is no SECRETS!!! Like it or not, taxpayer or non-taxpayer WE ARE THE MINORITY.... You folks up on the Race have, in my opinion, a phenomenal beach Rep. in Peter Murray. Dislike him for his, "The cup is half full approach", is unfair. You also have a North District Ranger in Craig Thatcher that reports just about every move he makes to Peter Murray. Peter than cuts and pastes these very useful reports on this message board. It seems that ever year right around this time we have a few individuals making posts on this board that out of frustration, THINK he or she has all the answers. Well, thats fine with me. Believe me, we could use some more help. I mean no disrespect by the following statement; I question ones desire to fight for beach access when due to inconvenience, cannot attend one, possibly two MBBA Board of Director meetings out of ten in a calendar year. I REFUSE TO DISCUSS BEACH POLITICS ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD UNTIL IT IS SECURE TO MEMBERS ONLY. I also take pride in what I say and do while speaking on behalf of the MBBA. If someone is going to tell me that they feel I'm not doing enough, doing it wrong, or just plain old don't like me, say it to my face, not in a air conditioned office holding a cup of coffee in one hand and typing away with iron fingertips. I'm a man and certainly can take criticism. I would love to attempt to answer any and all of your questions to the best of my ability. Again, I have nothing to hide but my frustrations as well. If email is not your fancy, we could set up a telephone conversation as well. My opinion here, talking beach politics on the beach is recipe for disaster. You are there to enjoy the weekend with family and friends. Don't ruin it with hear-say and false information. That is what the winter is for. This way, we have time to get mad at one another and than kiss and make up by the projects. (Well, some of us kiss and make up. lol). Anyway, I would love to help you in any way I can, just not on this board.
Scott
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Post by nance1597 on Aug 5, 2009 8:00:34 GMT -4
I too would love to see some new faces at the meetings with new ideas. Not that I don't love all the faces I see there every month. ;D and we don't mind if you are a little late. The meetings are the right place to bring your ideas so they can be discussed and voted on by the BOD. That said, the message board is the perfect place for members to discuss things too, but not much can get done on the message board. I think we would get more response from our membership here if the message board was private. This is our club and we do have a right to a private message board. I think people would feel more comfortable saying things knowing that the general public cannot read it or God forbid comment in any negative ways. Race Point is very lucky to have Peter as a beach rep. He has gotten more for you than any other beach we use. Nowhere else can we even stay in the parking lots. That in my mind is a huge step in the right direction.
I don't know if you remember or not but we just had to vote to change the quorum for taking votes at meetings. We can't even get 100 members to show up at the 2 major meetings we have each year. That is sad. That said, we have a handful of members doing everything they can to help with the situation all on a volunteer basis. They sacrifice time and their own money to make it to town meetings and travel many places in support of the club. We could use more help.
Yes we do need to think about moving in a different direction and maybe changing strategies. Numbers do make a difference. Let's start with the club.
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Post by kellya on Aug 5, 2009 9:08:47 GMT -4
Believe me, Scott, no disrespect is aimed at Peter Murray or Craig Thacher. They do keep us informed on this website and in person and for that I am grateful. I/we do appreciate that the Seashore has loosened the rules over the past couple of years in allowing us to park overnight at the lots and I’m sure that Peter has had a lot to do with that. My comments are with a view toward what is being done as an organization to ensure future beach access? If I had just bought my first beach permit last year, I would have nothing to compare it to and probably wouldn’t have the questions that I have. But having experienced the days of beach access all summer long (albeit, re-routed down the pole road to the crossover and leaving the birds their own space), and all of us birds/predators/humans were able to co-exist peacefully together, I feel that it's only a matter of time before it all goes away. In the case of the Seashore, the Feds are taking more and more away from us each season. What about application for a Section 10 permit that was all the talk a couple years back? What about additional access points to the beach? Why is ONE bird blocking access to an entire stretch of beach? And, finally, I am all for a private, members-only message board. Every other organization has one. Can this be accomplished?
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Post by rob on Aug 5, 2009 13:18:13 GMT -4
i agree with scott, it is obvious that this discussion cannot happen on this board. the message gets twisted. Scott... Ill send you an email next week. And to all the other memebrrs who have concers and want to get involved in the dialog with scott, and the MBBA please do the same. We get no where on the message board by arguing.
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Post by rob on Aug 5, 2009 15:26:40 GMT -4
Hello again, kellya, nance and anyone else for that matter want to email me your email address, I will include you on the email I send to scott, tom and peter. rcavicc@gmail.com
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Post by mbba1785 on Aug 8, 2009 9:55:59 GMT -4
I'm a Vermont Day tripper who joined the MBBA to support what you guys have done to keep the beach open! believe that if it was not for your efforts we would not have as the beach open at all at this point. Keep up the good work!! I'm too far away to make meetings but gladly pay my dues to support your efforts!
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